What was the best steal ever?

"NYSS" (NYSS) 01/24/2014 at 21:30 • Filed to: None

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Im a Chevy guy, I sell them, I own them, I love them...

but I still believe the VW Phaeton was the best STEAL ever when it came to a car being sold, under what its true value was... its an A8 for 1/3 less...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswage…

This image was lost some time after publication.

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:34

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I've seen some of the review videos on youtube etc. They are phunky with a capitol F. Neat cars, but funky!

JustWaitingForAMate > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:35

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$6 million lost per car sold, so technically it should be what...$8 million retail?

Brian Silvestro > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:36

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You hit the nail on the head. You want luxury? You got it. You want value? You fucking got it. You want a W12 engine? Fuck yeah you know you got it!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:38

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2000s Chevrolet Suburban. Hear me out. If you bought it, you had one of two things - you had an indestructible tank of a vehicle capable of doing a lot of things with ease. Or you had a truck worth more than you paid for it. When my dad was shopping for his avalanche, the salesman explained that with the GM discount and current "end of model year" incentives and trade in bonuses - my dad could basically drive off the lot with a suburban, and drive into the used car lot and the truck would be valued at over 3k more than he paid for it even after the depreciation hit. Yes, it's not a very jalop vehicle. But it can tow almost anything it can't fit inside it and was made of basic yet tough equipment. It was a vehicle that was truly an "investment" for doing work and if you didn't like it, you could trade it in and lose little to no money.

On the other hand, turning in your phaeton would result in massive losses no matter when you turned it in.

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:40

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Speaking of Chevy I gotta say the Volt is way up there on that "best steal ever" list. It's worth way more than what they can sell them for and massive rebates and discounts abound. First car I ever bought new and it's well worth every penny.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:42

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It's actually mostly Bentley parts. So it's an even bigger steal than that!

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 21:44

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I was gonna say that, but I didn't wanna hear the GM haters... the Volt is an incredible car, I have one as a Demo, and its really an all around great car in general, not even mentioning the fact that it doesn't have to use any gas... and if you should run out of electrons, no fucking problem, the oil sucker backup generator fires up without you even having noticed... Maximum Bobby Luts doesn't get the credit he deserves for saving the Volt, and Camaro when GM was hitting the shit fan...

NYSS > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/24/2014 at 21:47

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I am a Chevy salesman at a dealership here in NY... your right, the GMT800's (I think there 800's don't quote me tho) STILL hold there value even today... especially the 2500's

your father was a smart man

NYSS > JustWaitingForAMate 01/24/2014 at 21:49

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and now there even offering them "certified pre owned"

they sold the first Bugatti Cert. Pre-Owned at Barrett Jackson last week - It was Simon Cowells car...

quarterlifecrisis > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:49

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That's an 800.

NYSS > quarterlifecrisis 01/24/2014 at 21:51

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6 beers in, and I still got my touch...

(realizes I know too much useless GM truck knowledge, opens another beer, and begins to create Match.com profile)

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:51

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I don't get a lot of haters on me. I had one guy start in with me at a car show, but I was able to keep him calmed down and answered all of his points.

Most of our electricity comes from natural gas; as soon as electricity production gets cleaner, we benefit immediately; 8yr 100K mile warranty on the drivetrain bits; less than $1/day to drive, etc.

I've had mine for just over a year and still can't get over it. I find new things every week.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 21:56

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sir I wish I had you as my customer, because you actually talk sense...

most of my Volt customers, are GM haters driving a Prius... but there lease is up, and the Tesla is too much money (my store is in a very affluent area 20 miles north of NYC, where people have alot of money, but are too cheap to spend it)

if you ever wanna take a trip to NYC, ill show you a good time...

my other car I bought, its a 2011 Camaro SS, 550hp all motor... and I daily drive it when its nice out

quarterlifecrisis > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 21:56

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I've got a GMT 400 sitting outside, and had a GMT 360.

Boom.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 21:57

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slightly relevant question, how are your low rolling resistance stock tires holding up in the snow?

from my experience, they don't really get the job done, even though its a FWD car

deekster_caddy > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/24/2014 at 21:58

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Oh hell yeah. I just sold my '05 Yukon XL (2500, 8.1, 4/AWD). Couldn't get the money I wanted for it, but it is absolutely the king of the road. Indestructible. Just feed it gas and it will do whatever you ask it to.

I bought it used with 100K on it, did the needed maintenance and drove it for about 4 years. Would have kept it but it turned out the family didn't like trailer camping as much as I was hoping for. That gas will pay for a lot of air conditioned hotel rooms!

I ended up selling it to my dad who probably wouldn't be here had he bought a lesser tow rig. Too long of a story but basically he tested the Auto 4WD and stability control systems to their max while pulling a 27' travel trailer.

NYSS > quarterlifecrisis 01/24/2014 at 22:01

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relivant question, this guy dropped this to $1,300... he says it doesn't run "but probably only needs a battery"

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4259625763…

from a guy with more GM truck knowledge than me, good deal?

what are common problems with these?

dogisbadob > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:01

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The original Lexus LS400. A 7-series or S-class for less than the price of a 5-series or E-class, and 1000x better reliability and customer service than either could ever DREAM of!

Another good answer is the Porsche 914. Superior mid-engine layout for better performance, at a price much lower than any 911. It remains the best Porsche ever.

The Chrysler LX cars are basically a half-price E-class.

The new "non-Dodge" Viper is actually selling for *less* than a C7 Corvette. Greedy markups on the C7 combined with discounts on the Viper, you're getting a Viper for the price of a Vette, or a Vette for the price of a Viper!

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:02

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oooh I'm coming to visit! ;)

I participate on one of the bigger Volt forums and I have noticed that there is no end of newbies who just want to compare it to the Prius. Yeah, the Prius is getting 50 MPG. I drive the heck out of my car and get 110 MPG, I spend $25/mo on electricity and $25/mo on gas. I used to spend $350 on gas!

GM has done a terrible job marketing the Volt and most consumers don't want to take the time to understand it. But the fact is, plug it in when you get home, drive like normal, leave everything on Auto and forget about it, and you will get superb results. If you want to play with stuff you can, and improve your EV range bit by bit as you learn. But you don't have to. Just drive it!

NYSS > dogisbadob 01/24/2014 at 22:02

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those first 2 I agree with...

the LX cars are half the price, because really there interiors are shit...

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:04

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I drove it through a lot of snow last winter (Boston area). It never left me stranded and I was out in some slippery stuff. But they were also brand new tires. I put snow tires on this year.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:05

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what I now say to people directly comparing the Prius to Volt (the true awnser is you can't really, there totally different cars) is buy a Cruze Diesel, $27,000 fully loaded, and 55mpg...

friend me on Facebook... you sir are a good egg!

https://www.facebook.com/D0WERK

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:06

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very nice, I went to school at Bryant University, exit 10 on I295 in Rhode Island!

dogisbadob > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:07

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But it's like an AMG HEMI YO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:08

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Here's some fun stuff I've done with the Volt:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6509315…

and here I took it up Mt Washington last summer:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6509315…

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:11

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It's funny, I've often thought I should get into sales for this stuff, but it's a tough job. The more I learn about it, the more I'm not interested. I really like helping people find the right car and understand what all their options are, etc. But working at a dealership in sales just doesn't sound fun. I should hook up with Automatch Tom!

quarterlifecrisis > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:11

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Honestly on those...you won't really run into too many issues with them. It's the old TBI motor, which, while sucking on power, is pretty damn reliable. The 96+ trucks tend to have issues needing intake manifold gaskets at one point or another in their lives. Mine made it to a little over 200k before they crapped.

For $1300, you aren't getting hurt...I'd try and get it down a little more though.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:11

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sweet!

this is my DD when its nice out...

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:13

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I hate nibbles. No pic. But I think I found it on facebook.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:15

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if you like your sanity, and the desire to not develop a drinking problem, domestic auto sales isn't a good fit loll

to sum it up in one story, I had someone this very week walk on a deal because there credit increased the interest rate $10 bucks a month.... yes I spent 4 hours with someone to walk over $10 bucks (we were already $700 UNDER invoice, so I couldn't just save him the money either)

NYSS > quarterlifecrisis 01/24/2014 at 22:19

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I have a funny feeling this guy rolled the clock back... but thanks for the advice

ill remember to check the coolant for oil

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:23

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Yeah, unfortunately everybody today thinks they have all the power. You have a lot of power as the consumer, but not all. I got an end of month offer on my Volt that I couldn't pass up. Had been shopping for a few weeks, test driven etc, and emailed a whole bunch of dealers. Went for the best price (happened to be the same dealership I test drove at and would get service at), they sent me a 'sign today for xxx' deal over email that I couldn't turn down, but I think it was an unusual deal, they couldn't duplicate it for someone I referred to them. Must have been some quota type stuff involved. I didn't think the quota stuff was for real until I was comparing prices with other Volt buyers on the forums (which must kill any profit you have a slight chance for). It's gotta be a real tough time to be in car sales.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:37

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quota stuff is absolutely real... not so much as a salesman (we can't really make an exceptional deal unless management approves) but if the store is 1 car short, on the last day of the quarter, and it means a 40k check from GM to the store, most dealers will literally accept ANY offer.... but those situations are usually at the end of the month, more so a quarter, or especially on dec 31st.... also internet deals are usually cut to the bone, because they know your shopping other dealers

your rebates may have been different compared to your referal, example, since you were coming out of a competitive lease, it was probably an extra $1000 rebate from GM in your favor

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:41

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we as salespeople usually make 25% of the gross profit over invoice price, with a minimum commission of $100... usually we only get the minimum on new car sales on any given deal because its so competitive out there... there are execptions i.e.: corvette which we can make money on, but its tough out there...

In the end, if your a nice customer, ill cut the gross on a deal to nothing, to make you happy, In reality I make my money on volume, so if your a customer of mine, and your a nice person, ill cut everything to move the metal, and move on to the next guy...

I can make up the crappy minimum $100 commission on volume bonus's from GM at the end of the month

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:41

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No prior lease, no trade-in (wasn't worth the loss to me) I never bought a new car before this one and don't know where they pulled the pricing from. Although it was Dec. 22nd when they made the offer. I signed and picked it up on the 26th.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:44

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if you don't mind me asking, what was your lease payment, and how much total cash did you come up with?

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:48

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They offered me jack for trade in on my '05 Yukon XL 2500 8.1 (loaded). Probably because of the high milage, but still I could have sold it for nearly double what they were willing to give me for it. I ended up selling it to my dad for a steep discount, as he had a need for a truck just like mine arise while I had it for sale, but even at that he gave me more than the dealer offered in trade. Based on the comments from people who came to look at it, I had it priced right and would have gotten my asking price eventually.

Problem with the 2500s is that you are only going to buy a 2500 'burb if you are towing a travel trailer (or horses). Anyone else will get by fine with a 1500. And they don't put a diesel in there, so it will suck away the gas... (or send your truck plus $10K to the Duraburb guys). So you need to wait for the right customer to come along.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:49

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very true

but those 8.1's even now are bringing money on the niche market for guys who don't wanna go with the extra cost of diesel

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:50

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I didn't lease. Bought a $42K model at $6500 off sticker and took the 0% financing option. I plan on keeping it, I'm a long term owner, don't believe in leasing. Once I have 100K on it I'll start tweaking the drivetrain for moar power!

edit - I didn't have to put anything down, but I was able to pay the sales tax/delivery/document etc fees and just financed the raw purchase price.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:50

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and yeah I agree, I always get some asshole wanting a diesel 3500 dually, because "it sounds like cool and shit" and when I tell them they cost 65k fully loaded they think I'm full of shit...

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 22:54

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Yeah, another niche market truck. Who really _NEEDS_ a 3500 dually? Not somebody who wants one loaded with accessories. Someone who needs to tow something really heavy. I prefer 3/4 tons because I'm pulling a car trailer. Todays 1/2 ton trucks will do just fine though. But now that my '73 LeSabre is running well, I have that when I need to move a car.

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 22:56

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make shure you file with your accountant for th $7500 tax credit from Obama...

$6500 isn't totally rare, they cut you a short deal, but 5k was from rebates, the other $1500 is probably all the markup...

they defiantly didn't make anything on you, but you defiantly didn't lose anything either...

but for your peace of mind, you got a good deal

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/24/2014 at 23:00

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This was December '12. Tax credit is already in my bank account ;) (It was from Bush, BTW).

As a salesperson it would be good to tell people what form they need for their taxes if they are interested in that - it was a bitch to figure out the form I needed, and most accounts are like WTF?

EDIT - adding link to tax credit attribute to Bush:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1060552_g…

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/24/2014 at 23:58

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yeah I know it was Bush (I'm a republican, but in a state like NY, admitting that will make people hate you)

and yeah, I always refer prople to there accountant, because its income biased, and theres only a limited number of discounts.... if I wanted to be an accountant, I would have already shot myself to avoid the mundane nature of my future career....

so as any good salesperson would, I pass the buck... because that one guy who has 7 lien's from the IRS on his house, will crucify you for not getting his tax credit from uncle sam, because I told him so...

were just protecting ourselves, as you know, everyone is out to get car salesmen, even if the majority like myself are good honest people... the general public will screw you any chance they get, so ill reseve my personal tax advice, and pass the buck to the customers trusted CPA

JasonStern911 > NYSS 01/25/2014 at 13:43

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If memory serves correctly, the first year the 240Z was produced, the MSRP was $2,995 - basically Datsun's cost - to get enough models out to help convince people that the Japanese could make a cheap sports car.

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/25/2014 at 14:10

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I hear you on the accountant thing. Makes total sense.

It's surprising to me how many people get irked and want to "blame Obama" for the EV tax credit. It's been made obvious to some important people that more EVs = lower oil consumption (eventually), and that's the real message. New tech is expensive, and the investments in research and getting these things out are a drop in the bucket if we can actually save oil in the long term. And the more volume, the less expensive these will be, and therefor save more, etc. Same goes for solar electric and those rebates - and I'm probably going to go solar next year, since we just got a 2nd floor air conditioner in our house that I'm sure will eat more electrons than we are expecting. I hope to oversize the system enough so that our annual electric bill is zero to negative a little. (talked to the power company about it and they recommend not oversizing _too much_as they will only pay wholesale rates to overproduction). Would love to add backup batteries to be able to go off-grid, but that cost isn't worthwhile to us, we rarely lose power here. Plus I can use the Volt to power emergency items around the house with an inverter if necessary. (awesome backup generator, will run for a few days on 9 gallons of gas powering our little things)

NYSS > deekster_caddy 01/25/2014 at 20:11

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Ive heard of people using Nissan Leaf's for emergency power, never a Volt...

can you explain that setup to me, you made me curious

deekster_caddy > NYSS 01/26/2014 at 09:59

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Just get a good high power inverter ("true sine wave" if you want to run a motor like a refrigerator or sump pump), connect it to the 12V battery (somebody makes a wiring kit to do it very neatly), turn the car on and shut off all of the accessories and heater etc. It will use the power from the high voltage battery and it's 12V inverter (14V really) to keep the 12V battery charged. It will run for a few days that way if your power use is low.

In my case, we have a gas fired steam heat system in the house, so the energy to keep the heat running is just for the little 24V transformer that lets the burner fire. No motors or anything. The only other thing would be to save food, keep the fridge on. But if it's winter, we could creatively use ice from outside and our big camping cooler, so theoretically we don't even need to keep the fridge on. The heat is the only thing I "need" in an emergency, and maybe a sump pump if it's water that's keeping the power down.

Troll is English for Troll > NYSS 01/31/2014 at 21:50

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I stole a pack of gummy bears from a grocery store once when I was in high school. They were good.

Best steal ever.